CRYSTAL CLEAR

That’s Debatable – When Harry Met Sally

Film Debate by Paul Preston & Steven Lewis

PAUL: Steve, it’s come to my attention that when I said in the “To & From: Julie & Julia” video that “When Harry Met Sally” is just a lazy combination of “Annie Hall” and “Manhattan”, you TOOK UMBRAGE, correct?!

STEVE: Well, since “When Harry Met Sally” is one of my favorite romantic comedies, and since I generally find Woody Allen’s films to be wildly overrated – particularly the two you mentioned – yes, it’s fair to say that your comment didn’t quite sit well with me. It’s not like I didn’t realize, even at the time of its release, that “Harry/Sally” shared certain stylistic traits with some of the Woodman’s more prominent films (in particular the all-standards soundtrack, the picture-postcard shots of New York City, and the ending montage of previous scenes from the movie).

But so what? You could just as easily dismiss “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” as an “Annie Hall” ripoff because the lead character speaks directly to the camera. Ultimately, any film deserves to be judged not by whether or not it reminds you of other movies, but on how well it maps out and achieves its own particular tone, approach and intent. And I’d say “When Harry Met Sally” does a fine job on all counts.

PAUL: Steve, you ignorant slut. It’s not that “When Harry Met Sally” shares sylistic traits with Woody, it’s that it shares the entire “particular tone” you say it individually maps out. I’ll admit, I laughed a lot at “When Harry Met Sally”, there are loads of good jokes, and not just ones that are “jokey”, but good relationship stuff and the classic “I’ll have what she’s having” line. It spoke to me, too, ’cause it was a 1980s movie, and that was the era in which I grew up.

But it was AFTERWARDS that I saw “Annie Hall” and “Manhattan” (a late bloomer), and was surprised at how much of what “Harry/Sally” accomplished had been done in the ’70s. Taints the memory a little. Heh-heh….taint. But now that you mention it, did “Ferris Bueller” rip off “Annie Hall”‘s style, too

STEVE: Paul, really! “You ignorant slut”? I laughed, until I realized that comedic territory had aready been mined back in the ’70s by Dan Aykroyd on ‘Saturday Night Live’. What a ripoff artist you are! . . . But seriously now, to get down to cases: you say Woody’s movies already scoped out Harry and Sally’s territory years earlier. I’d say not. First of all, Woody’s films are told relentlessly from HIS CHARACTER’S POINT OF VIEW. This is a crucial difference. It makes the films, particularly “Annie Hall”, stories not of a relationship per se, but rather of one man’s reminiscences of a relationship (or relationships – several are touched on) and his attempt to draw meanings and conclusions about his life based thereon.

By contrast, Rob Reiner and Nora Ephron are almost schematic about ping-ponging back and forth between the Harry and Sally characters, making sure the film is about each equally. Secondly, Harry and Sally populate a landscape located squarely within standard rom-com convention: i.e. this is a story about how boy gets girl (or vice versa, as your sensibilities dictate). The success of the film comes from the way it adheres to, yet also rings changes upon, that fundamental convention. Woody’s films are much more interested in examining FAILED relationships, and so already exist outside of standard formula. A more apt comparison would actually be to John Cusack’s “High Fidelity” or this year’s “(500) Days of Summer” (both wonderful films, by the way). So there’s a complete difference of INTENT between the films we’re talking about – and that’s before we even get to the jokes!

PAUL: Ah, gotcha. Instead of saying “You ignorant slut”, I should’ve maybe thought of my own idea and forged out my own comedy path instead of re-treading what was done in the ’70s. That’s a great idea. So noted. I’ll easily give you the difference in point of view. Woody’s certainly more narcissistic than most filmmakers, and his films show it, making them unique.

So, perhaps I need to refine my argument that if Reiner and Ephron are starting from a different INTENT (and I do like the old couples reflecting on their SUCCESSFUL relationships), why re-tread the tone as a way to follow-through with the intent? I know “When Harry Met Sally” is the gold standard for recent romantic comedies, but I think I can safely now say that I go more for the films that don’t wear the genre on their sleeve, like “There’s Something About Mary”, which is so goddamn funny you forget it’s really a boy-meets-girl, boy-loses-chance-to-get-girl, boy-spends-YEARS-pursuing-girl romance. Or “Groundhog Day”, which mined a concept for laughs, but quickly used it expand a relationship. It’s just a shame that the ‘gold standard’ is populated with some contrivances.

STEVE: So let me get this straight: you identify Woody Allen’s films as displaying true quality, yet somehow disparage “When Harry Met Sally” for seeking to emulate that quality? Sounds like your argument is along the lines of “Since ‘WHMS’ is just a dumb romantic comedy, I expect it to well and truly BE dumb! Why introduce wit and sophistication into a genre that gets by just fine on dopey physical schtick, wacky plot contrivances, and overly calculated three hanky emotional moments?” What I love about “WHMS” is how it eschews all those standard rom-com devices and manipulations; instead, it utilizes beautifully crafted scenes and dialogue to offer pithy, hilarious takes on the male-female condition. And its development of friendship transforming into romance is still a damn sight more mature than 9/10ths of the movies following in its wake (for which it’s supposedly the “gold standard”).

Now, I could go on from here to detail the ways in which I feel the movie’s approach to dialogue and situation is very different from Woody Allen’s (his characters grope and stumble for words, whereas the conversations between Harry, Sally and their friends flow with the confident rapidity of a 20th century Shaw or Oscar Wilde – if anything, their rhythms are closer to “Seinfeld” than to Woody Allen), but I feel that’s somehow no longer even the argument. Your statement of preference for romantic comedies that “don’t wear their genre on their sleeve” leads me to suspect that your REAL problem with “Harry Met Sally” is that it’s too rich and sophisticated to be in the genre ghetto it has consigned itself to. That is, if the movie was going to be so adult and clever and mature anyway, then why didn’t it just go the extra mile and make itself into something more idiosyncratic and personal LIKE Woody’s movies are, instead of staying tied to its more streamlined, conventional approach. Is that what I hear you saying?

PAUL: That is definitely NOT what you hear me saying. I think I’ve made the disappointment I have over “WHMS” becoming too much like ANYTHING else quite clear. And what are the kids saying nowadays anyway? “WHMS” or “Harry/Sally”? Again, I’ll say that I like the film, but too much of it was verbatimly (yes, I made that word up) familiar, specifically pulling montages from two Woody Allen films, including the ending! When “Casablanca” came out, if it ended with the Rosebud scene from “Citizen Kane”, it would’ve lessened the movie, no?

It’s the very definition of a genre gold standard to stand above everything else IN the genre, and indeed many have come in the wake of “H/S” and failed to maintain “W/H/M/S”‘s quality. But I certainly don’t praise the film as highly as you. Over the course of this argument, you’ve gone from liking the movie to comparing Nora Ephron to Oscar Wilde. Hmmm….that’s debatable.

Directed by: Rob Reiner
Country: USA
Distributor: Castle Rock Entertainment

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